2500 Pts - Altansar Eldar Roster - Ard Boys
HQ: Avatar
HQ: Eldrad Ulthran
Troops: Dire Avengers
10 Dire Avengers
Exarch(Bladestorm; Defend; Power Weapon; Shimmershield)
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone; Vectored Engines;
Shuriken Cannon; TL Scatter Laser
Troops: Pathfinders (Rangers)
8 Pathfinders (Rangers)
Troops: Wraithguard
10 Wraithguard
Spiritseer (Destructor; Witchblade)
Troops: Guardian Squad
10 G Defender Squad (Shuriken Cannon)
Spiritseer (Destructor; Singing Spear)
Elite: Howling Banshees
10 Howling Banshees
Exarch(War Shout; Acrobatic; Executioner)
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone; Star Engines; Vectored Engines;
Shuriken Cannon; TL Bright Lances
Elite: Striking Scorpions
10 Striking Scorpions
Exarch(Shadowstrike; Stalker; Biting Blade)
Heavy Support: Dark Reapers
5 Dark Reapers
Exarch(Crack Shot; Reaper Launcher)
Heavy Support: Wraithlord
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance; Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: Wraithlord
Flamer (x2); Bright Lance; Missile Launcher
Total Roster Cost: 2500
4 years ago
First off, I give you big kudos/bonus points for using Dark Reapers as a theme element. I think they've got some solid fluff (especially with Maugan Ra).
ReplyDeleteThe big thing I think this list will struggle with is taking out vehicles. You have three lances and two missile launchers, so if you see Land Raiders or other AV13-14, you're in trouble. They can pretty much do what they want, and just stay out of the way of the Wraithguard and they're good.
I would heavily suggest defaulting to twin-linked bright lances on the Wave Serpents.
Also, the two objective-sitter squads (Pathfinders AND Guardian Defenders) seem a little bit like overdoing it. At the least, I'd try to find points to put a Scatter Laser in there and get the extra range and shots.
I personally am not much a fan of the DA Exarch, so I'd have to recommend against it. The defend + shimmershield is meant to make them a tarpit, but the shimmershield only matters against power weapons. When you get down to it, I don't think that defend and a 5+ invulnerable is going to make the difference between living and dying when you're T3 with a 4+. The Power WEapon isn't going to make the difference either, since you're WS4, S3.
I think the Wraithlords and Banshees are good as-is, and I think if you're aiming to maim up vehicles, then a biting blade is your friend in the scorpions.
You have brought up a badass point about the Dire Avengers, I was just running them as I normally do but in this application they are completely not necessary this way.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking if I downgrade it to two Avenger Shuriken Catapults then I can downgrade their Wave Serpent to TL Catapults and upgrade to another Brightlance. What do you think of that?
Troops: Dire Avengers
10 Dire Avengers
Exarch(Bladestorm; Defend; 2 Avenger SC
Wave Serpent
Spirit Stone; Vectored Engines;
TL Shuriken Catapult; TL Bright Lances
I think the changes to the Wave Serpent are a good start, but I would get a shuriken cannon instead of the TL shuricats. Honestly, I don't really see a pressing reason to run anything other than a TL Bright Lance in the turret, since it's the most accurate place we can get them (a BS4 lance on a wraithlord hits 66% of the time; the Bright Lance at TL BS3 hits 75% of the time...)
ReplyDeleteI personally am not a fan of Defend on the Avengers; I would rather deploy them far enough away from the enemy to not eat a charge, and thus not need defend. I also still don't think it'll stop the enemy from rolling you, and the point of Defend seems to be that it wants to hold the enemy there so someone can rescue the avengers.
I personally don't even roll with DA Exarchs, as I mentioned before. But, if you ARE going to run one, I'd go Bladestorm/twin catapults. DA are shooty troops; specialize in shooting. Bladestorm just left me sitting in the wind one too many times thinking '...if I could just fire this turn...' for me to take it, and dropping the BS/Twin-cat Exarch to a regular guy nets you a fair 32 points. As is, the Defend is another 15 points you could free up.
Even without bladestorm, DA are still nasty; you just still have to team them up with something else and combine fire to make things turn into bloody smears.
Spirit Stones...I usually skip those as they come in hand 1/6 of the time on glances AND pens. Yeah, it's annoying to have the thing stuck standing still (as opposed to merely 'shaken', where you can run away), but I think that it's 10 points that doesn't often come into play.
Vectored Engines are similar to Spirit Stones; they don't reliably come into play. You have to be busting out a full-on flat-out move and get immobilized, and I'm usually moving and shooting. If I were going to run Vectored Engines, I'd use them on a Serpent carrying assaulty troops, just to make it harder for the enemy to force them out of the transport and shoot 'em up, since I'm shoving a Serpent full of Banshees/Scorpions/HArlies into the other guy's face as fast as possible.
I usually just run Serpents with TL Bright Lance and the Shuriken Cannon upgrade, and it costs me 145. Makes it a threat to heavy armor, middleweight armor, monstrous creatures, and in a pinch you can slap wounds on infantry. The 10 points for the Shuriken Cannon ALSO means that a single weapon-destroyed result doesn't totally neuter your Serpent's shooting capabilities; a TL S4 gun with a 12" range is NOT a threat. I mean, I'd love it if we could at least get a friggin' storm bolter on the thing; 24" is respectable enough.
I ran with the Cannon/Bright Lance, Vector/Star Engine combo on both vehicles and these options came in handy in all three games. My biggest fear is a flat out skimmer blowing up due to being immobilized, especially when I also try to shove my bansees into the other guys face as fast as possible, or make it to that group of terminators that deep striked in a timely manner.
ReplyDeleteStar Engines in my opinion is the key to giving cover to assault units that are too fragile to take incoming fire after dominating their targets. I notice people always putting out that tempting unit for you to slaughter knowing your banshees will be exposed to their entire gunline. Shenanigans I say! Fortune and Star Engines FTW!
The icing on the cake is having your assault unit jump out, Fleet, and Star Engines fly the Wave Serpent to the other side of the assault to block line of site/add cover saves to your unit that will be standing there in the open after carving every last dead terminator a new one. I am so glad I get that consolidation move!
I think I play the Dire Avengers completely different from you so I really like the Exarch with Defend, Blade Storm, Shimmer Sheild and Power Weapon load out. I tend to flat out the serpent reasonably close to a squad, the next turn they all jump out, Blade Storm, assault and hold. The 5+ invulnerable save and the -1 attack really piss people off when my core unit drops 27 shots, assaults for 20 more attacks on the charge (2 with power weapons) and their pimp dudes that are left have to deal with Defend and Shimmer. How often do people hid one or two pimp guys with a Power Fist/Claw/Weapons in a unit full of losers? If you do not win combat resolutuion with this unit, it would be a miracle for the other guy.
I don't see why you need the Star Engines to give the banshees cover. They get out, you move the Wave Serpent to a screening position, and then they move, fleet, and assault. Fortune probably helps the transport the turn it runs up into the enemy's face...
ReplyDeleteon the Avengers, that's certainly a different use for 'em. Though, 27 shots turns into 2 hits from the exarch and 18 from the squad, which turns into 10 wounds on T4 guys. I mean, it's not bad, but what exactly are you assaulting with 'em? I'd think you'd be able to knock down stuff like Guardsmen with it, and maybe even a tactical squad...though I think you'd fall down against more dedicated assaulty units, even with Defend.
What are some of the units you've beat down with this? I'm curious, since it's certainly not a way I've considered using DA before.
In my local club I tend to play a lot of horde style armys. Yesterday I used this on Tyranids with a Broodlord with great success, it also worked on Orc boys that fell out of a truck I blew up. Generally this is just awesome against troop choices or to clean up speed bumps but I've used it yank troops off of objectives and hold, or even to hold a close combat happening next to my banshees to add as extra cover for them when they find themselves covered in blood yet out in the open.
ReplyDeleteI often find myself with only a tiny few squads since I run the Wraithguard so I keep everything very close together and supportive.
I've used Star Engines to help with cover when say during the movement phase his transport may be in the way but blowing it up will remove it. I like to use them as turn 5 objective contestors as well. Not every game they are going to be worth it, but having that pocket item to me is worth it.
I really like your ideas with the weapons on the Serpents, they made a huge difference to my game.
I would give the Warlock in the Wraithguard unit Conceal instead of Desructor and have Eldrad, Fortune them. Alot of people fear Wraithguard, and they will draw fire from Leman Russes, Melta, Plasma etc. A re-roll able cover save can help yo big.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you might want to give one Wraithlord a Wraithsword. With WS4 you will most likely hit on 4's, same if your trying to hit moving vehicles in combat.
I have actually started giving the Wraithguard Enhance with great success. People do fear Wraithguard and as much as you can try to avoid close combat the 12" range brings them into assaults more than I would like. The extra Initiative and Weaponskill helps avoid the extra kills from losing combat res with fearless units.
ReplyDeleteI personally think the wraithsword is the biggest waste of points in the entire Eldar list.
Once you shoot at a target you are stuck shooting/assaulting it for the turn. If you attack a vehicle with your one shot Brightlance it is really nice to have another shot with the EML when you either miss or roll a stun or shaken on the table. If you see a unit trying to sneak up on you, you have a blast along with a decent guaranteed wound to mess with them, and of course dual flamers to seal the deal. Either scenario you have a really good attack backed up by a decent one giving you two seperate shots against troops or vehicles that you have locked into for that shooting phase.
Rerolling your measly two attacks in close combat is not worth getting rid of the Brightlance or the EML by any stretch of the imagination. Especially if you consider 9/10 games the only close combat a Wraithlord should see is a last ditch effort to tie up or pull off Ork Boys or some other loser core units that need to be harassed.